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City:Fort Wayne US
Membership19years 336days ago.
Last Login1year 272days ago.
Last Move1year 295days ago.
teramaze is currently Offline!Send a mail to teramaze


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: teramaze - 17years 321days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
I think I will pass on your offer of a crash course on aircraft and flight mechanics.
Your displayed knowledge of the realities of air to air combat seems to be lacking. To make a ludicrous statement that...and i quote

patrol/flight endurance has nothing to do with combat endurance.

This statement completely flies in the face of the real concerns of a pilot who is about to enter combat, in combat or trying to decide to break off combat. With reasoning like yours, the Germans should have won the Battle of Britain, because the 109's lack of endurance over southern England would have no effect on the combat. The simple reality was that the German pilot had to keep his eyes on not just the sky, but the fuel gauge as well or he would be quickly be swimming home. The ack of sufficient fuel reserves would certainly influence his choice of maneuvers, his employment of full power, etc. The Spitfires and Hurricanes could afford to loiter til the 109s turned back and THEN pounce. The situation was reversed when the Allied bombing campaign began. The German fighters would wait til the Allied escorts turned for home and then would go after the bombers. They often would attack the escorts first in order to get them to drop their external tanks and those have to break off combat prematurely.

I am quite aware that these situations do not involve World War I, however the principals remain the same.

You are quite right about airplanes NOT being cars. That said, the same principals of motion apply equally to cars and to aircraft. Throttle settings will most certainly affect the speed of the aircraft and will also affect fuel consumption. That is why aircraft generally CRUISE to the target, to minimize fuel consumption and save it for time over the target and egress, when full power will be needed.

I did not make any sort of conjecture regarding supply and air to air combat. My comment was directed more to the general situation facing the Germans during both wars and not a specific effect on any particular situation.
Case in point however, is that while German aircraft production reached its peak during 1944, lack of fuel and trained pilots lead to the majority of these aircraft remaining on the ground and horrendous losses to the units that did manage to get aloft.

The fascination that some players show for the German side has been prevalent since the 70s and while I never mentioned Avalon Hill, they were most assuredly one of the companies that pandered to that crowd. I can recall discussion in one of the early gaming magazines, Fire and Movement, about exactly this phenomenae. Designer, John Hills over glamourization of the Whermacht and SS in several games, including Squad Leader and his flippant comment that "their uniforms were pretty neat" leading one of the others to comment that it was pretty sad that the best he could say of the individuals who had killed his father was that their uniforms were pretty neat.
I am aware that most of my references were made about World War II, but then there are VERY few games dealing with World War I and it has never really been very popular with the majority of gamers.
I brought this point up, because the proposed changes would benefit ONLY the German player and will not make the game more enjoyable or historically relevant.

--- Message edited by SteveMartin


Why do people try to use what happened in WWII as support of thing in WWI. it does not work that way.

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17years 327days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 327days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 326days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 324days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     17years 323days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         17years 321days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 323days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 320days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 320days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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17years 318days Nick Message for ksnake
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17years 319days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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