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City:Fort Wayne US
Personal Data:Male,
Membership20years 150days ago.
Last Login15years 138days ago.
Last Move17years 187days ago.
HeadMMoid is currently Offline!Send a mail to HeadMMoid


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: HeadMMoid - 18years 276days ago.
Message text
TXWard wrote:
HeadMMoid wrote:
I continue to be appalled (and this is not directed just at SteveMartin) at the unwillingness of some players on this site to allow possible improvements in the game, especially when it does not appear that they will be forced to play by the modified rules.

I continue to be amazed by how worked up and bent out of shape you get when players state that in their opinion, your fuel changes are not an improvement to the game. If the equalized fuel games affect the scenario and plane stats, are we not forced to be affected by the change?

Also, there is logic behind the fuel rules as they are - the permanent penalty as you call it. The German designs sacrificed fuel for maneuverability. If the maneuverability of the aircraft isn't to be equalized, why should the fuel? The Germans, historically due to their aircraft design, were more likely to be forced to withdraw due to fuel concerns. Granted, it may not have occurred as frequently as needed for you to feel that the fuel stats are justified, but they were more likely nonetheless. How else should this be reflected in the game? Why shouldn't there be a penalty to the German designs if that is how they were designed in the first place.

Blue Max may be a tactical level game, but the big picture shouldn't just be ignored. The war wasn't conducted on a micro level, so the game takes that into account in a way.

Relax, have fun, and stick to the Allied planes if you really think it is that unfair. I'd bet there would be plenty of takers for you if you flew the Camel in some duels against the overly penalized DVII.

First, am I "bent out of shape"? No. I am frustrated at the intolerance of people on this site for change and possible improvements.

Second, these are not my fuel changes. Nick proposed them. I would prefer a modified version. Attribute things to their authors! Also, no one that I have seen (or at least cared about) has suggested changing maneuvers. That is a poor straw man argument.

Third, as for statistics, this is another concocted non-issue. The statistics can be maintained in any manner the site developers desire. If separating original fuel rules from others pleases them, then I'm sure that is what they will do. Personally I think the site statistics are pretty useless and haven't looked at them for months.

There is data and math behind the fuel rules, not logic or historical relevance. Apparently you feel that German pilots were not familiar with the concept of "fuel at break-off point, time to return to base". Even a brief perusal of the readily available anecdotal literature will show that German pilots timed the length of their missions in the same way that Allied pilots did. That is, the aircraft maintained combat reserves. It doesn't matter if the flight time was one-half hour or over two hours; not having fuel for a two or three minute fight would be the exception, not the rule you and others imagine.

How should the fuel issue be reflected in the game? It shouldn't! But if it must be present, at least it should be made to do its intended function - to limit the length of the game, not create mythical "permanent penalties" for some aircraft. You could accept Calsir's point that combat ended when the combatants lost sufficient altitude (an accurate and highly valid point). Or, you could accept my point that fuel was not a primary issue in the vast majority of World War I aerial combats. Or, you can just keep wringing you hands and repeating the same meaningless "German aircraft had less fuel" line.

If you don't like the idea - fine! Play the original version. Just step back and let the site's developers try for something better.

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Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

18years 277days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 275days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 275days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 272days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 273days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 271days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 270days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 269days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 269days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 269days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
18years 269days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 18years 269days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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