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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership19years 57days ago.
Last Login16years 258days ago.
Last Move17years 50days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 18years 276days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
Well Killer1, Yes

Allied aircraft pretty consistently had greater endurance than their German counterparts. Coupled with other factors, such as prevailing wind advantage, more economical cruising, shorter ranges to target and overall greater abundance of fuel supplies, meant that the German pilots often had to break off the combat before the Allied fliers simply to avoid being turned into armed gliders.

To put it in simple terms, the DR I could stay in the air for about an hour and a half, while the Snipe could stay up for three hours. That would equate to 74 fuel points for the Snipe to be true to historical accuracy.

If you want to give German aircraft the same fuel loads as Allied aircraft, then you are giving them an advantage that they NEVER had and will destroy the game as it was designed.


Steve, I beg to dissent. Flight endurance and combat endurance are not necessarily related to each other. This whole issue has already been discussed before: check http://www.youplay.it/play/forum_showmessage.asp?msgid=32649 for a post of mine regarding energy management and wwi dogfights.

The point is, engines were not powerful enough to maintain dogfight manoeuvring without trading altitude for speed, and there were no afterburning or emergency power technologies that could drain a fuel tank in a matter of minutes. According to Phil Hall, an air combat lasted about 2 to 3 minutes. If you consider the endurance of the dr.I, you can easily see that there is a difference of at least an order of magnitude between its flight endurance and a typical air combat duration. However, in BM, the dr.I starts always with an energy disadvantage (call it fuel, if you prefer, fuel is a form of energy storage). The same can be said of the D.VII and other German aircrafts.

If you don't believe what I have just written, you can check "Quest for Performance - The Evolution of Modern Aircraft"
at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-468/cover.htm Extrapolated values for the performance of a few examples are in the appendices. It is quite straightforward to derive the same conclusions of mine. Of course, the can not be considered authoritative because it relies on the accuracy of historical published data.

Moreover, what do you mean by "prevailing wind advantage"? I think that would be even, since if it is easier for me to reach a target having a tail wind it will be harder to get back home with a head wind. Or is it related to the wind blowing combatants around?

Lastly, I do not understand all the fuss raised about an experimentation proposed by Nick. Nobody is going to compel you or anyone else to join non default games. While I agree that Phil did a great job, this game is far from being perfect, and I firmly think that everything is improvable and nothing is to be considered definitive and untouchable. Of course, I also find this game extremely fun, all its shortcomings notwithstanding.

Hope I made my point clear. Sorry for the long post, again .

--
Calsir

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18years 277days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 275days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 275days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 272days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 273days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 271days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 270days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 269days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 269days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 269days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
18years 269days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 18years 269days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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