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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership18years 107days ago.
Last Login15years 307days ago.
Last Move16years 99days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 17years 323days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
In my opinion also, I think that a lot of the drive to change the fuel rules comes from players who tend to favour playing the German side. I have seen this for so long in the thirty five years or so that I have been playing wargames. Everyone wants to play the German side, with the neat uniforms, the neat tanks, the neat planes, etc. None of them want to play the big picture though, the overwhelming numbers arrayed against them, the lack of supplies, the lack of air superiority or naval superiortity, etc. They all seemed to have the same opinion, that the German military machine was so brilliant and invincible that only an incompetent Hitler and his political staff prevented them from overrunning the world. This is their idea of expert thinking and I believe we are seeing a prime example of it here in this discussion.


I don't get this. Either it is just a not so subtle flame-bait or else I don't understand why you wrote anything like this. I don't see why you bring out the good old trump card of AH without ever arguing against my points or justifying your arguments. Firstly, this is not WWII but the great war, or WWI.

Secondly, I enjoy playing as the triple entente and as the triple alliance (aka the Germans) both, and anybody can tell you that I have, in general, no preference except that I don't like to fly the Bristol or the Halberstadt because I simply cannot get them correctly .

Thirdly, my arguments don't stem from crypto-apology or overawe of German achievements, but from my knowledge of aircraft design and flight mechanics: should you like so I could tutor you in a crash course of basic flight mechanics, as you don't need to know aircraft design to understand WWI air combat. If you want I can show you why patrol/flight endurance has nothing to do with combat endurance. The math is not that hard.

Fourthly, your point about number superiority can easily be addressed in scenario design, rather than in some abstract "fuel" boxes. By the way, you might want to check about the story of a countryman of yours who was jumped by 60 Fokkers (according to a British newspaper article), and managed to shoot down 4 (yes, he got a VC for that).

Fifthly, you conjectured that scarcity of supply, lack of naval superiority () and air superiority should have influenced the duration and the odds of an air combat. There is a logical fallacy. Fuel scarcity could maybe cut a patrol short and reduce the number of sorties but it does not necessarily cut a combat short.


gugliandalf wrote:
IMHO, it doesn't make any sense.

No more than changing any other plane stat.


Lastly, to counter gugliandalf's point about game stats, while we could argue forever that Wright and Hall used questionable characteristics (check http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/bluemax/designnotes.html ) to compute aircraft statistics, which is beyond my point, my claim is that "fuel" is not structural, but contingent.

Also: prop driven airplanes are not cars, where speed has a strong effect on mileage. In WWI most engines (the rotaries) where unthrottleable (my spell checker fails me now) and fuel consumption did not depend on speed.

I hope I made myself clear and that someone (gugliandalf, I hope that now my arguments look sensible to you) will actually bother to read this long post.

--
Calsir

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17years 327days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 327days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 327days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 326days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 326days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 325days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 324days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     17years 323days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         17years 321days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 326days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 326days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 323days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 325days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 324days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 323days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 320days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 320days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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17years 318days Nick Message for ksnake
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17years 319days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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